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Law Clarified
Law Clarified
Ep 6: Owners Hour - Building Certification and 2022 Reviewed
Helllloooooo Listeners! This is the last episode of the Owner's Hour Series. So sad! We've really enjoyed producing the Owner's Hour Series and we hope it has been a valuable resource.
In this episode, we provide a very high level overview of the building certification process and why it's so important to a new home build or renovation project.
We reflect on the achievements and milestones of 2022 and discuss what we are creating at Hearthstone Legal in 2023! We are so excited!
It could include launching a Hearthstone Legal Tik Tok account, but more likely a YouTube channel and other educational resources to support our clients and potential clients.
We want to say a huge "THANK YOU" to our clients and listeners. We hope all our listeners have a safe and joyful Christmas holiday season, and we look forward to the podcast returning in 2023.
Got some thoughts on today's episode? Please join our conversation on our Instagram page @hearthstonelegal.bne
Check out our website: https://www.hearthstonelegal.com.au/
Send us an email: law@hearthstonelegal.com.au
Thanks so much for listening!
***DISCLAIMER: Please note, topics discussed in this podcast episode are for general information and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute or seek to replace legal advice and should not be applied to your individual circumstances. Please seek qualified legal advice ****
Hi, Kelly. Hi,
Speaker 2:Marty.
Speaker 1:This is actually the, the real, real last episode of Owner's Hour.
Speaker 2:The real, real
Speaker 1:Last one, because I think once people hear the bonus episode last time with, um, our guest, Donna, we actually did sort of say, uh, oh, have a Merry Christmas. Kind of might have given people the impression that that was it for the year, but we snuck an extra one in. We snuck
Speaker 2:One in
Speaker 1:<laugh>. We're recording a, a bonus bonus.
Speaker 2:A bonus bonus episode.
Speaker 1:This is the last episode, but for real life. The last one. Yep. For
Speaker 2:Reals.
Speaker 1:So I want to talk a little bit about some certification just to tie up some, I guess, loose strings from our chat with Donna. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, and then let's do a 2022 wrap up. Let's do it. As scary as that is,
Speaker 2:I, I've said this before, I'm still living in 2019, but I will catch up. Yeah. So let's wrap up 2022. So I'll ok, let's do that. Match up<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Let's get into it.<laugh>
Speaker 3:Half stone legal presents a real talk of the good, the bad, and everything in between for all things business and construction law, whether it's navigating a dispute, the Q BCC or guidance on a contract. We give you a rundown of some of the dos and the don'ts. These are digestible chats on topics that you might hear in our office of an afternoon. Daunting. Not anymore. Here's law clarified. Cool.
Speaker 1:All right. So, um, you won't hear the day that we chatted with Donna, but, um, we did, I did do that. I tried to do the best I could on my own<laugh><laugh>. Um, but afterwards, one thing I realized ke was the, it was actually exactly what it was meant to. We had a really great chat about Donna, who, um, works in certification, you know, a a very predominantly and historically male dominated area of, of the construction industry. And so we had a chat about that and it was quite, um, woman centric discussion. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, focusing on women and some of her experiences. Yep. What I realized afterwards, um, I didn't actually really touch too much on what certification actually is.
Speaker 2:The, the process.
Speaker 1:The process, the, the,
Speaker 2:And how it fits into the field project.
Speaker 1:Yes. Cause as I said to Donna, many, many means ago, when you and I at the former bsa, now the qbcc, I had absolutely no clue. Well, when I started there, I had absolutely no clue about building full stop, but on the, you know, very steep learning curve climb. I then heard about certification and that's really where I started to understand what it was all about. But I, I just don't think people factor in, in their mind when I'm building a house or I'm renovating or I'm having a pool installed, that there's actually sort of this compliance element that's really important.
Speaker 2:Very important.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, um, probably did chat with Donna A. Little bit about it and what she specifically did, but just for our homeowners, I think we should have a little bit of a clarification about what it actually means. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's, let's go through the building certification process. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, as best as we can, as best as we can, because it's very complicated.
Speaker 2:It is very complicated.
Speaker 1:Um, so as I understand it, um, in order to do Certain, and we won't get into that because it's really technical, but certain works, whether it's a new house or some renovations, um, or a pool, fencing a pool, there are requirements as to how that thing or how that work has to be, um, undertaken. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, by a license builder of course, and we've talked about that, but in accordance with Australian standards, a, a national construction code, which is really a guide for how everything goes together, how all of the components work, how you weatherproof something, how you construct something so it's structurally sound and doesn't fall over. Um, someone has to check that stuff off to make sure that the end product is compliant, safe structurally sound, it's functional, it's gonna perform in the way that it should perform.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And someone also needs to check that what's been approved to be built is what is actually built. Mm. So you don't get, for example, an approval to build a house and then all of a sudden a motel<laugh> ends up on the property. Like there's actually Yes. Actually our process, and it's the certification pro process that operates concurrently with the build
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>
Speaker 2:That ensures that what the local authority the council has approved is what's built. Yes,
Speaker 1:Yes. And a good example of that, I think is some of those areas. I think West End is one of them, certain parts of West End, um, for those listeners who are in Brisbane, where it is a requirement, whether you are building, but certainly renovating that you are to maintain, um, a,
Speaker 2:A certain aesthetic.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, uh, a facade mm-hmm.<affirmative> essentially mm-hmm.<affirmative> that you can do, you know, essentially pretty much what you want on the inside of the house, but the external part of the house that you see from the street has to be consistent and comply. And there's all standards about that. It also prevents people from building a motel in the middle of a residential area. Yes. Because again, without boring people with technicalities, there are actually lots of different classes of buildings mm-hmm.<affirmative> and all of them have different requirements.
Speaker 2:They do. Yep.
Speaker 1:It's complicated. Complicated.
Speaker 2:And that's where the certification process fits in. Mm. It's that process that ensures that level of compliance with the, with the local council requirements that apply at the time Yep.
Speaker 1:As well as the engineering and the, the elements of the build that it's been done properly so that your house doesn't sink, so that your house doesn't fall over. So that if you live in a cyclone area, your house is appropriately designed and constructed to withstand a certain level of storm, you know, cyclone, wind, that sort of stuff. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, so yeah. I thought we should discover that.
Speaker 2:Let's cover it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Anything else to add on to that? I, from your perspective?
Speaker 2:I think given that this is the owners, our owners, our series, so, you know, it's the content is targeted towards property owners and assisting them in understanding the process. I think the only comment I'd, I'd add is sometimes there is a misconception about the role of building certifiers and the certification process. Um, I do hear, um, you know, property owners who feel that building certifiers have a role to play in ensuring there are no defects in the construction. Yeah. That interesting. And it, it's interesting and, but that's actually not the role of the building certifier. Um, they're not there to walk around a building, a home, new home or a renovation and create a list of defects, um, that the builders required to rectify that. That's a process that's governed under the building contract with the builder and the legislation administered by the Q B C. The certification process is there to ensure, you know, that the home is built or renovated in accordance with, as we mentioned, local authority standards that apply building standards, construction code standards. But they're not, the building certifier is not there to ensure the work is free from defects. And that's a common misconception I hear and see Yeah. From property owners. And, you know, quite understandably, if, if you're not in the building and construction industry regularly all the time, I certainly don't think that people necessarily need to understand it all. Mm. But that's a common misconception I hear though Yep. That the building certifies there to police the builder and come up with a list of defects.
Speaker 1:Mm.
Speaker 2:That's not their role.
Speaker 1:Yeah. If I can just break that down a little bit mm-hmm.<affirmative>, um, certainly the certifier can identify non-compliances
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:<affirmative> for example, if there's insufficient or inadequate tie downs in a frame and a trust system, or if footings haven't been properly, um, haven't been dug deep enough mm-hmm.<affirmative> or haven't been, um, properly constructed, they're somehow non-compliant. That's certainly their obligation to point that out and, and to make sure that the builder rectifies probably not the best word to use, but addresses that, address non-compliance in order to get the, the certificate that at the end of the day signs the job off as compliant. The misconception that you just talked about is there are non-compliances, but sometimes non-compliance doesn't mean defective. If someone has a concern about defective building work, they really need to get a, a, an independent building inspector to come and look at that stuff.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's, it's, I I, I think back to, um, not only this series, but also our, um, builders toolbox Tuesday series where sometimes the language, um, can get a little bit confusing. You know, for example, we say, well, there's a variation to the contract. Well, that has a general meaning. I e the contract has somehow changed mm-hmm.<affirmative>, but it's also a thing that happens under the contract and has a mechanism for it, similar with defects, um, or non-compliances that kind of, in a lot of people's mind probably are the same, but they actually are different. They're
Speaker 2:Different. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:<affirmative>. Yeah. So that's a, an interesting distinction. I think.
Speaker 2:It is. It is,
Speaker 1:It is. And it's complicated as we talk about with a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Hmm. Um, the only other point I'd make about certification and building certifiers is that they are also regulated like builders and trades in Queensland. So the Queensland Building and Construction Commission, QBCC regulates building certifiers. So building certifiers are required to hold an accreditation. They're required to hold that accreditation with the Q bcc. And if there are concerns about whether a building certifier has discharged their obligations properly, then the Q BCC has the ability to investigate those concerns and if appropriate, institute a disciplinary process against a building certifier. Mm. That's important to remember too. It is regulated.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes it is. And they're held to a code of conduct and
Speaker 2:They have a code of conduct
Speaker 1:Expected to comply with their statutory obligations. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative>. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay. That's
Speaker 2:Certification.
Speaker 1:That's certification
Speaker 2:<laugh>, that's a certification
Speaker 1:1 0 1.
Speaker 2:That's a very complicated area of building construction.
Speaker 1:It really is. It is interesting though.
Speaker 2:It is interesting.
Speaker 1:I, um, I don't know about you, but I
Speaker 2:Probably, for us lawyers, we're used to breaking down a set of rules and pulling it apart and picking loopholes and
Speaker 1:It's, um, it is technical and, and the bits that I did in that area, I really learned a lot about how buildings actually are meant to go together, meant to
Speaker 2:Come together, and
Speaker 1:That they're all completely different and yeah, it's pretty cool. Bit nerdy, but
Speaker 2:Bit nerdy<laugh>. Well, that's why we're in this game, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:Sure is.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I think that's a good little, um, I guess sub supplementary bit of information for our owners just following on from our bonus episode with Donna. Cuz as I said, I realized in retrospect that probably skipped over that and people might have been thinking, what, what is this certification thing that we're talking about mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So yeah, thanks for your input on that. Oh,
Speaker 2:Thanks for yours.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're welcome. Anytime,
Speaker 2:<laugh>.
Speaker 1:All right. I know you're still stuck in 2019,
Speaker 2:<laugh>.
Speaker 1:I hate to break it to you, but it's almost 2023.
Speaker 2:Oh no,
Speaker 1:I have a confession to make.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. Is this being recorded<laugh>?
Speaker 1:It's not controversial.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Um, I think this statement for me is true now as we're recording this, but it will also be true when this gets released into Jeo world. I'm tired.
Speaker 2:Mm. Yep.
Speaker 1:This has been a big year.
Speaker 2:It's been a big year.
Speaker 1:It's,
Speaker 2:I'm
Speaker 1:A bit done. I'm a bit done with 2022
Speaker 2:<laugh>.
Speaker 1:I know you've still gotta catch up a few years,
Speaker 2:But four years behind, mate.
Speaker 1:It's cool. It's cool. Just wrap it up in your Christmas break. Yeah. Um, so this year, 2022 for Half Stone Legal was our second year of being open. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, which was really exciting. And we launched our podcast. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So the first round was our toolbox. Tuesdays we had eight episodes which were targeted towards our builder clients. You weren't with us then. If people listen to them, they'll remember the sweet chocolatey tones of Jessie talking with me about various to
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Just wanna make that clear. Although I have had a cold recently. Maybe I've sounded
Speaker 1:A little bit like that maybe. Yeah.<laugh>, um, pretty sure you listen to the episodes. So in that, for our builders, we talked about contracts, communication. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, which really is a theme that runs through pretty certain every single one of our podcasts. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, we heard from Bob the building, God with our 10 commandments of building mm-hmm.<affirmative>, which we might go over again next year. Um, just to remind people we talked about variations and prime cost and provision or some items and how those things can cause some difficulty. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, cause some problems in, in building. We talked about extensions of time and practical completion again, which is a really big pressure point for people. And then we talked builders through the QBCC and what it can and can't do, and some decisions that it can make that really impact our builder clients. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and what their options are in regard to that. And then our litigation, which was meant to be one podcast blew out into three,
Speaker 2:Turned into three episodes,<laugh>.
Speaker 1:But, um, it was necessary cuz I mean, it's a huge thing. So we talked about qcc reviews, we talked about claims in Qcat and the magistrates district, Supreme Court. And we went over some debt recovery stuff just on a high level to talk people through that. And then we did a wrap up. So that was our toolbox. Tuesdays. A lot of information, A lot of information. A lot of information. And then Jessie, uh, left the nest and went on a new law adventure. And then you came on board. They've come on board, you've come on board. You've, you are now warming the seat. And in our owner's hour we've talked about kind of similar stuff. I think definitely communication. Yes. It's a, it's a, again, a big, I think it's the connecting, um, theme. We talked about contracts, again, the q bcc, but from our owner's perspective mm-hmm.<affirmative>, um, and what people should do if unfortunately it all goes bad. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I think that's a wrap up of the owner's hour. Yeah. We covered all of that. And then we had some bonus sessions. So we had our branding guest, Renee Shay. Yes. She's so super cool.
Speaker 2:She's very cool.
Speaker 1:I I really enjoy working with her. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, um, I'd love to do some more work with her in 2023. And then we had, um, Donna, our lady, our certification lady mm-hmm.<affirmative>, which was really cool. That's been 2022. That's 2022. Podcasting office changes. You making me do lots of crazy stuff on Instagram,
Speaker 2:<laugh>, which I know you absolutely
Speaker 1:Love.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Can't wait to
Speaker 1:Do. I'm so excited.<laugh>. Um, what have we got coming up for people in 2023? Once you, once you catch up,
Speaker 2:Once I catch up to 2023,<laugh>, can someone please, if, if you are in, if you are like me, who are still kind of grappling with the fact it's not 2019, if you are with me, can you get in touch with us throughout Instagram page or something? So I don't feel like I'm all alone. I'm
Speaker 1:Just, I'm sure you're not. Please
Speaker 2:Let us know. I'd, I'd, I'd appreciate it. Yeah. Um, so 2023, we've had some conversations about what we're creating in 2023. And the focus will continue to be on adding value and, and educating, um, our client segments, homeowners, property owners and builders and trades people. Yes. That's something that's really important to us.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:Um, education is key. Um, and I, I feel we have a really, uh, important role as lawyers in that, in that space to educate our clients, potential clients and continue to provide that value. Yes. And so that's certainly gonna be a focus for 2023. We've talked about how we can deliver that, those ed the education or the information differently. Mm. And we'll continue with the podcast of course. Mm. But oh, we might be, you know, we might be venturing into some visual media.
Speaker 1:Oh, don't say TikTok,
Speaker 2:<laugh>,<laugh>.
Speaker 1:My kids would be so embarrassed if I ever got TikTok to
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Maybe. Oh, maybe. Maybe TikTok, maybe not TikTok. Um, I was alluding to more like, um, videos. Some educational videos. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Some YouTube stuff. So we're gonna become podcasters and YouTubers.
Speaker 2:YouTubers. Yeah. Potentially. Possibly.
Speaker 1:Possibly.
Speaker 2:We've talked about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, so that's exciting.
Speaker 1:Well,
Speaker 2:Yeah,<laugh>,
Speaker 1:I'll reserve my thoughts about it, but I'm excited about the education part of it. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Cause I think gone are the days where lawyers have to be the keepers of legal information, you know, in their mahogany books and<laugh>, you know, people have to pay squillions of dollars for even one tiny little sort of bite of information. Obviously there are some things, a lot of things that you do need a lawyer for. Oh yes. And that lawyers are best suited to navigate
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>.
Speaker 1:But there are other things that I think if people just knew this stuff from the start, it might either prevent things from happening or make those things less scary when they happen. Yes. And I think, and you know, we'd love to receive some feedback from people about what they've thought about the podcast. Any things that they would like to hear us talk about in the podcast, any questions that they have, topics that they might want us to touch on. Um, I think we've really done that is just to break it down and, and say, yes, these things are complicated. Yes, they can be difficult, but it doesn't have to be scary. Let's have a conversation. Let's give you some of the tools that you need to deal with some of this stuff yourself and feel slightly more prepared in the event that something happens.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm<affirmative>. Yeah. And what you're alluding to, excuse me, what you're alluding to there, Marty, is also some thoughts we've had around how we can structure the services that we provide, um, and do the legal work a bit differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I am excited about that. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, because one of the things I really wanted to do in starting Half Stone Legal was do it a bit differently. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, cuz you still have to give people advice.
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 1:But let's try to figure out how to do that in a way that's understandable and received in a way that really suits that particular person's needs. Yeah. And that doesn't always have to be a 10 page lengthy letter of advice with lots of big legal jargon in it.
Speaker 2:Latin, no. You love your Latin turns.<laugh>. I love a good Latin<laugh>.
Speaker 1:So Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited.
Speaker 2:2023 is gonna be great.
Speaker 1:It is going to be great because you will have
Speaker 2:Caught up because I will be on board.
Speaker 1:Yep. The other thing, Kelly, we really need to do is to formally get you on the website
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Yes. You
Speaker 1:Keep hiding and everyone sort of knows that you're around, but we need to get you on the website.
Speaker 2:I don't mind being in the
Speaker 1:Shadows. Oh, I know. But yeah, we've gotta get our website developer onto that. Yes. Which at the moment is
Speaker 2:Us. So should I send you an email? Yeah,
Speaker 1:I'll just make a reminder on my calendar.
Speaker 2:<laugh>.
Speaker 1:So
Speaker 2:That's
Speaker 1:It for 2022. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative>,
Speaker 1:What are your Christmas plans?
Speaker 2:Oh, my Christmas plans. I just really like the opportunity to just rest and read. I'm so
Speaker 1:<laugh>. That sounds like heaven. Can I come to your place and just sit on the couch and do that? Oh,
Speaker 2:Here we go. Go sit by the fire.
Speaker 1:We'll have a hot
Speaker 2:Chocolate. Have a hot chocolate.
Speaker 1:You don't have to talk to me. I'll just read curled up in my PJs. Is that okay?
Speaker 2:That's what I'll be doing. Oh.
Speaker 1:So jealous. I'll probably get woken up at 4:00 AM by kids. You wanna open presents and it'll be, be high on sugar by 6:30 AM Brilliant.
Speaker 2:Good
Speaker 1:Times. So I might have a mimosa or three
Speaker 2:<laugh>. That sounds amazing. Yeah. A mimosa by the fire.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But I am excited about having a break as well. Um, and coming back in 2023. Fresh.
Speaker 2:Ready to
Speaker 1:Go. New ideas. Ready to tackle the new year.
Speaker 2:I'll create the TikTok account over the break show. Oh my God.<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Let's just put a pin in that one.<laugh>. Awesome. Well, thank you. Oh, I've really enjoyed owner's hour. I've
Speaker 2:Enjoyed, I've enjoyed Owner's hour too.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Cool. You're like a legit podcaster now.
Speaker 2:I'm adding it to the resume.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent
Speaker 2:<laugh>. I'm gonna add tit talker too.<laugh>,
Speaker 1:I'm gonna add YouTuber next year.
Speaker 2:Influencer Influencer Law. Oh, did I just coin a term? You
Speaker 1:Did. Oh. Quick trade, market
Speaker 2:Patent pending.
Speaker 1:We'll hashtag that. Does
Speaker 2:That ever
Speaker 1:Work? I have no idea. It's not my area of law. We're not
Speaker 2:Copyright lawyers.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. We'll, we'll figure that out. Yep. Well, thanks everyone for listening. Thank
Speaker 2:You,
Speaker 1:Listeners. As we said, any questions, topics, suggestions, feedback, send it through, we'd love to hear it. Um, because we wanna provide content that is meaningful and helpful to you.
Speaker 2:Yes. Add
Speaker 1:Value. Yeah. Not just us talking, you know, talking some crap on a Thursday,
Speaker 2:<laugh>
Speaker 1:Important crap. But you know.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:We want people to be interested.
Speaker 2:Yes. Interested and
Speaker 1:Engaged. Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:<laugh>. That's more articulate.<laugh>.
Speaker 1:All right. I'm tired. Let's get outta
Speaker 2:Here. Let's get outta here.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Merry Christmas. Bye.
Speaker 2:Bye.