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Law Clarified
Law Clarified
Ep5: Owners Hour - Price Increase Claims
Hi Queensland property owners!
This is our second last episode of our Owners' Hour series.
In this episode, we talk about something we have received a lot of inquiries about lately - when can a builder increase the price to build or renovate your home?
We talk about fixed price contracts and share some of our client's stories (no names used of course!) as a way of explaining when a builder could legally increase the contract price under a fixed price contract, and when it may not be allowed.
Building or renovating your home is a huge financial and emotional investment. We want to make sure you have everything you need to take away some of the stress or worry with building or renovating your dream home.
Got some thoughts on today's episode? Please join our conversation on our Instagram page @hearthstonelegal.bne
Check out our website: www.hearthstonelegal.com.au
Send us an email: law@hearthstonelegal.com.au
Thanks so much for listening!
**DISCLAIMER: Please note, topics discussed in this podcast episode are for general information and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute or seek to replace legal advice and should not be applied to your individual circumstances. Please seek qualified legal advice **
Hi Kelly. Hi Marty. Welcome to another owner's hour. Another owner's hour. I think we're up to number five. Number five. Yeah. Before we launch in, I feel like I just need to say, apologize if I sound a little bit muffly. I have a cold nasally like that. Nasally like a stuck up rich woman. Yes. Yes. Or just someone with a cold. Oh, you poor thing. It's all good. It's the change of season. It is not covid everyone. Not covid. We're safe. We're safe. Just seasonal allergies. Just seasonal stuff. Well, thank you for coming in anyway. Oh, it's all good. And we appreciate it. I might sound better. Who knows.<laugh>. Yeah. Give us some feedback. Does Kelly sound better? Better with a cold or not? Not something we wanna keep around anyway. No. Episode five. Episode five. Um, I think we should have a chat today about price increases. Yes. It's a question we get a lot. We yeah. Yeah. I'm sure a lot of people have heard about it in the media. Um, it's a really hot topic. It's an important topic. It's, it's stressful. Let's address it. Let's address it. We've received so many inquiries lately from, from property owners who have received a claim from their builder who is building or renovating their home for more money. Mm. Yeah. All of a sudden they're receiving a claim. We've seen or we've seen claims of up to an extra in the range of$70,000. I think the biggest one I've seen is$89,000. The biggest one I've seen is a hundred and you've seen a hundred thousand. Yeah. So these are claims that are on top of the contract price. That's right. So the cost blowout is significant. Yeah. But is it legit? Is it legit? So let's talk about that. I think we should talk about it. Yeah. It seems to be happening a little bit. Yeah, it does. So let's get into it. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Half stone legal presents a real talk of the good, the bad and everything in between for all things business and construction law, whether it's navigating a dispute, the Q BCC or guidance on a contract. We give you a rundown of some of the dos and the don'ts. These are digestible chats on topics that you might hear in our office of an afternoon. Daunting. Not anymore. Here's law clarified.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, Kel, as you said, we, we do do a lot of work for builders, but we also do a lot of work for homeowners. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And because this is owner's hour, we're gonna focus on the owner's perspective. Today. We have in the past couple of months, but probably really from the start of the year, it really started to increase. But it has really ramped up, I think in the last couple of months. A lot of inquiries from homeowners at various different stages of their build, the start the middle, even at the end where they are receiving correspondence from their builder requesting more money sometimes, as we said, significant sums of money to complete their house.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's happening much more than I expected.
Speaker 3:Yeah, me too. And the other aspect of that, which is surprising me, is certainly the homeowners I've been speaking to, these claims are coming out of the blue, like they've had no previous warning or communication from their builder that the costs are blowing out.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Um, and all of a sudden they are receiving a claim for more money and it's leaving the homeowners, I'm speaking with really stressed, upset, angry. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, almost all of the property owners I've spoken to talk about how they now feel they can't trust their builder. They feel there's something shady or dishonest going on. Like all of these really intense emotions coming with these claims, quite understandably. Yes. Uh, and they're ready to lawyer up. Yeah. They're ready to go. Which is why they contact Yeah. Litigation lawyers. But
Speaker 1:That's exactly
Speaker 3:Right. And I mean, if ever, if ever there was the potential to um, you know, accelerate the degradation of a relationship mm-hmm.<affirmative>, it's springing something like that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:On somebody.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Cuz as we talked about in, I think it was, I think it was our first episode, so some time ago. Um, when you build a house, when you renovate, it's, it's a really big, it's a big thing. You might only do it once, maybe twice in the whole of your life. It's a big investment. You talk specifically about as a risk averse person, all of the checks and balances that you would do. And we recommended some of those to our hormonal listeners.
Speaker 3:I am very risk adverse.<laugh>. I am not skydiving<laugh>,
Speaker 1:But one of the things I really recall you saying, um, was about budgeting. You know, because you budget for the house, obviously there's the house of your dreams. If money wasn't an issue and you could have whatever you want, you know, taps that, make coffee and margaritas and all of that sort of stuff. All the bells and whistles. But you budget for what you want, what you can afford, what's in your range. And you also have a little bit of a allowance for some wiggle room. You know, cuz you might fall in love with, I think we talked about some, some,
Speaker 3:The
Speaker 1:Marble. The marble that's right. The
Speaker 3:Marble tiling from the shirtless Italian man.
Speaker 1:Yes. You want that tiling. So you allow a little bit of extra I want
Speaker 3:That man.
Speaker 1:Um, but then you get hit with a huge big bill.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or, or invoice or request for extra money. And it, as you say, it comes completely out of the blue. Yeah. Um, that's really shocking and similar, the, the owners I've been speaking to are feeling frustrated, feeling taken advantage of. Yep. Even though the majority of them understand there's a labor and material shortage at the moment and that causes issues. It's still a really big unexpected thing. It
Speaker 3:Is, it is. And I'm just reminded too of a point we made in a previous episode in this series as well, and I feel compelled to say this now, just upfront we do only see a small percentage of, you know, the builds in the state. So we're not suggesting that all builders and trades people, um, are having difficulty managing their contracts and their clients. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, I would say that the inquiries we are receiving are from those building businesses that don't have sufficient structures and processes in place to manage the communications with their clients. Yeah. Effectively. Yeah. And that's really at the core of what we're about to talk about is communication. Yes.
Speaker 1:Um, and it is clear, again, we've touched on these sorts of things. It is clear from what we have learned in the past couple of years that the builders who had the ability to be flexible, anticipate what was going to happen and pivot and deal with that accordingly have managed to weather the storm. Mm. It's, it's the builders I think, and probably generalizing, but as you say, the bits that we see, um, that just didn't take into account any of those things. Made lots of promises to build lots of houses for certain prices, just didn't anticipate the craziness of the increases. And how do they deal with that? Of course, people need to get paid, but there's a proper legal way to do that. And sometimes it might be legitimate, but sometimes it might be a try on. Yeah. And as an owner you need to know the difference.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So I think in with that context set, um, why don't we talk about, well, before we talk about price increases, how about we talk about what, what do we mean by a fixed price contract or a budget? This is,
Speaker 1:I am really starting to dislike this phrase fixed price contract
Speaker 3:<laugh>.
Speaker 1:But yes. Let's, that is a good starting
Speaker 3:Point. You know, I've had, you know, quite legitimately homeowners say to me, we've got a contract to build our house for$450,000 or an amount, a fixed amount. How can they turn around and charge me an extra 70 grand? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So before we answer that question, um, I think it's important just to, you know, acknowledge that, um, in the residential building sector in Queensland, there is a requirement for fixed price contracts.
Speaker 1:There certainly
Speaker 3:Is. Um, that's a, a requirement under the legislation administered by the Queensland Building and Construction Commission that there be a fixed price mm-hmm.<affirmative> for building and renovating. Um, there's some very, you know, important policy reasons behind that, which we won't spend time going into. But, um, when you look at the process of a build, one of the reasons why fixed price contracts are necessary is that a lot of, a lot of the work is funded by banks and you know, a lot of people, unless you're incredibly lucky to be able to fund your build or renovation with cash, good luck to you. Yeah. If you can. Yeah, absolutely. But for, you know, a vast majority of homeowners, they need to finance it through a bank and a bank needs to have some certainty and clarity around the cost of construction. Yes. So that they can set the construction loan. Yep. Um, so that's, you know, just important to acknowledge that it is a requirement for fixed price contracts.
Speaker 1:Yes. And if we use your example of a$450,000 build mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:<affirmative>,
Speaker 1:There is a fixed price component mm-hmm.<affirmative> in that, that's the price of the contract and that includes everything in construction. It includes an allowance more often than not for certain items that are provisional sum or prime cost items. And those are things like tiles, perhaps, um, carpet, maybe fixtures and fittings where the builder, for example, might have offered or, or made an allowance for those finishes in a certain range. But there's flexibility if the owners want to change the range and there's a price increase up or down the contract allows a, gives a mechanism for how that is adjusted. So there is the fixed price component, but that is subject to a little bit of change depending on those adjustments. And, and we've got our variations. Our variations, we've talked about that before.
Speaker 3:We've talked about variations. They can also trigger a price adjustment Yes. Under the contract. So we talk about contracts being fixed price, but it's also really important for homeowners to understand the circumstances and events throughout their project or their build, which could trigger a price adjustment. Mm.
Speaker 1:Um, and I think probably it's good to make a, um, differentiation between an adjustment under the contract, which could be an increase or decrease in an allowance or a variation.
Speaker 3:Variation mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:<affirmative>, which adjusts the fixed price of the contract. We need to separate that from what we're talking about today, which is ju just a blanket now your job is actually gonna cost$500,000
Speaker 3:Instead of 450,000. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Putting aside those adjustments that are normal, contemplated, this is a oops, it's now gonna cost an extra 50 grand. Yeah. Uh, can you, can you help out with that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And certainly we've both seen, cuz we've talked about it in the office, we've seen builders issue a variation. They call it a variation, but when you actually unpack it, it's a price increase claim. Yes. They've called it a variation. I'm, I'm gonna give them the benefit of a, of the doubt and say not deliberately, oh,
Speaker 1:But sweet of you<laugh>.
Speaker 3:Maybe I'm just too risk adverse and naive. I don't know. But they call it a variation. It's, but there is absolutely no change whatsoever in the scope of the works or the materials that are being supplied if it's a prime cost or provisional sum. Yeah. It's just a, it's just a, exactly as you say, oh, we, we priced it at 450,000, you got finance on that amount. As the build's gone on, we've now incurred extra costs. Sorry, here's your claim for an extra 50,000 mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:<affirmative>. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's what we're talking about today.
Speaker 1:So there are some legitimate ways that a builder can increase the contract price mm-hmm.<affirmative>, and I'm not gonna bore people with the intricacies of the contracts and what the clauses say. Um, because if you have that concern about your contract before you sign it, you should be getting some legal advice. Absolutely. Whether that's from us or another lawyer, but speak to someone about that. But there are in the standard form contracts, some causes that allow in certain circumstances for the builder after a certain period of time if things haven't happened, um, to review the price of the contract and say, well now because x, y, Z hasn't happened, um, we need to review the price, it's gonna be increased by this much. Excuse me, what do you wanna do? Do you wanna proceed? Do you wanna make some changes so that we can manage the price? Or do you want to end the contract that is if done appropriately and in accordance with the terms of the contract that is an acceptable,
Speaker 3:Legally
Speaker 1:Allowable way that a builder may increase the price
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>.
Speaker 1:Um, and it happens early. I guess the one benefit for homeowners is if they find themselves in that situation, it's happened early, you're not part way through the build. You can work with that. And there are lots of options ions we have seen though, part way through the build, as you said before, a variation says, oops, I need an extra 60 grand mate, can you just sign, sign there, oops. It's gonna cost more. It's a variation. Uh, what do you reckon about that? Kosher, not kosher
Speaker 3:<laugh>. I'm gonna go with not kosher. Mm. Uh, and I'm, I'm going to recommend, uh, if that if a homeowner were to receive such a claim, you need to get some urgent legal advice. Mm. Um, because what happens next could be the difference between the bill being completed, um, and landing in a potentially lengthy costly legal dispute. Yes. Um, if there are any concerns, e even with variation claims, any kind of claim or notice you receive from a builder during a project, if you have any worries, seek legal advice from a building and construction lawyer, it could save you so much. Yes. Down the track, Absolut, time, energy, money, because
Speaker 1:As we talked about, a price increase is not a variation. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and variations in each of the contracts are clearly defined what the variation is and how it has to be dealt with.
Speaker 3:Just,
Speaker 1:Oops, the cost of timber has gone up. I don't want to bear that. Cost is not a good enough reason. Mm. But I have seen some special conditions in contracts that do provide for that where, where, because of various different reasons, certain elements of the build increase and there's a special condition that people may have agreed to that allows the builder to increase the, the contract price. That might be a situation where the increase is legitimate and lawful.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. And with a big caveat over maybe because even, even even a price increase clause lawyers might also use the term cost escalation clause or rise and fall clause. We're all talk, we're talking about the same thing. Even clauses like that in residential construction contracts, even if they are there, if it, if it was to go to a court or the tribunal that there would be a conversation or an assessment around whether or not that clause is reasonable, whether it's a reasonable clause, yes. That should be enforced.
Speaker 1:And as far as I'm aware, that hasn't yet been tested.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:I don't think we're far enough into those sorts of special conditions and contracts getting into that stage of litigation where someone in the district or Supreme Court is making a determination about the validity or effectiveness of those
Speaker 3:Causes. Causes, yeah. We're not quite there yet.
Speaker 1:Mm. Um, which will be the
Speaker 3:Day will
Speaker 1:Come. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 3:The day will come. But we're not quite there yet. But, um, it's really important for property owners, homeowners to understand the clauses in their contracts.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Without a doubt. We've also had a couple of clients recently who are almost at the end of their build reaching practical completion, you know, getting to that final stage where it's almost ready, almost there. Almost there. And then they get a nice invoice that says, oh actually by the way, it now cost us an extra 70 grand to do your house. Can you pay that? Um, we've heard in the media as well about some builders, oh, I don't wanna use the word threatening, but suggesting to people that unless they pay this extra invoice, they're not gonna get possession of the property.
Speaker 3:They're not gonna get their keys,
Speaker 1:They're not gonna get to live in their dream house. Um, that's quite concerning.
Speaker 3:It is concerning.
Speaker 1:And again, if that happens, we would encourage you to get some legal advice quickly, because more often than not, again, generalizing everyone's situation is different. Um, that price increase may not actually be a, a lawful, valid invoice that requires payment.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think for those clients who have come to us, um, before, you know, have come to us at that stage where they've received that claim, that price increase claim, we've been able to come up with a plan. Yes. Um, and we've helped quite a few property owners in the last little while with a plan that allows them to lawfully take possession of their house and not pay the claim Yes.
Speaker 1:To navigate that difficult, awkward, frustrating, and argumentative stage of
Speaker 3:The build. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because it should be exciting. Right. You're about to get the size, you've come to the end of the project,
Speaker 3:It's taken a long time,
Speaker 1:You've dreamt it, it's been built, you're almost ready to take possession. It can be really stressful. Mm. And so getting a big bill on top of that makes that worse. Mm. So yes, we have successfully managed to hold the hand of some of our clients and walk them through their options and, and take them down the path to get them the outcome that they want, um, in a safe and sensible way.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Within the parameters of their particular contract too.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 3:I hope, I hope property owners aren't listening to this episode going, well now that I've listened to a podcast episode, I'm gonna tell my builder to stick it and I'm gonna change the locks and<laugh>. That's not what we're saying. That
Speaker 1:Is absolutely not what we're saying. Not
Speaker 3:What we're saying. We're saying the plan to navigate through that is dependent on what your contract says. And also when you come and see us, like
Speaker 1:The earlier, the better.
Speaker 3:The earlier the better. We've got more time. But
Speaker 1:Isn't that something we, excuse me talk about in all of our episodes? I, I think is get advice early. Don't stick your head in the sand and don't let the natural frustration, anger, disappointment guide the things that you do,
Speaker 3:Guide your actions.
Speaker 1:You know, don't send an email in anger you might want to, but just stop, put a pause on that, get some advice, talk to someone, figure out tactically what the options are as you say Kel in within the scope of, um, your particular contract and your particular situation and figure out what the steps are. Mm. Yeah. It's really important. It
Speaker 3:It can be navigated,
Speaker 1:It can be. It
Speaker 3:Can be. And we've done it. Mm. I'm quite proud of what we've done for a couple of our clients actually. Yeah. We've navigated them through it, but it's taken some time. And yes,
Speaker 1:I'm also really pleased with some of the people that we've helped right at the start, you know, when they've signed the contract, something has happened, they've had to have a discussion about a price increase for valid legal reasons, and we've been able to put them in a position where they can feel comfortable with that increase for the balance of the project moving forward. That's, that's been really, um, enjoyable to do as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure enjoyable is
Speaker 3:The right word, but, well,<laugh> satisfying might be a word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's probably a bit better, isn't it? Because
Speaker 3:The project's been able to be completed. Yes. Knowing that we've, knowing that we've been able to save those parties from a big dispute. Mm,
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Cause we know what that takes and what that costs.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I, I've also had a couple of circumstances where the individuals have decided not to proceed with the contract and Yes, that would be so heartbreaking. Um, but they made that decision because they were feeling extra stressed about the extra money. Didn't have a secret money tree in the background. I'm not, I would love to meet a client who has that, it'd be amazing. Um, and made the really difficult but commercially sensible decision just to put a pause on their build project. Yep. Um, and
Speaker 3:It's not the
Speaker 1:Time. That's right. And, and again, we've been able to navigate them through that with the least amount of stress, um, and and safely get them out of that particular situation. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Lawyering is just problem solving, isn't
Speaker 3:It? Lawyering is creative problem solving. It's all it is. People<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Oh, five years of uni for that. Yeah. No, no, it's more than that.<laugh>.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think I'm just sitting here too, Marty, and I just, I'm just wondering if we should just, um, spend a couple of minutes just explaining why we're seeing price increases.
Speaker 1:Mm.
Speaker 3:Okay. Um, because they have been quite common recently.
Speaker 1:They have,
Speaker 3:But they're not actually that common like under normal economic conditions. Correct. Um, so they're, I think it might be worthwhile just filling the listeners in on why are we seeing it? Why is it
Speaker 1:Happening? Are we gonna use buzzwords like covid 19,
Speaker 3:COVID 19, the
Speaker 1:War in Ukraine? Yes. Any other buzzwords?
Speaker 3:Well, funny of, well it's not funny about the war in Ukraine, but until the war in the Ukraine started, I didn't realize that Ukraine was one of the biggest exporters of timber prefabricated timber in the world. Really?
Speaker 1:I did not know that. You not know that.
Speaker 3:That's
Speaker 1:Bad mate. I live under a rock. I never read the news. I just, I
Speaker 3:I that's probably why you're generally happier than me.<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Yes. Ignorance can be blessed sometimes. Um, I did not know that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. A lot of pre-fabricated timber products come out of the Ukraine and there is a global shortage of pre pre-fabricated timber. Yes. At the moment. Trusses, roof truss trusses in particular, framing that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, so yes, war in Ukraine Yeah. Is impacting Australia. Mm.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Not
Speaker 3:Directly through conflict, thankfully. Yes. But indirectly through the, through the export, import export market for timber.
Speaker 1:And, and on that note, I've heard of a couple of builders who either anticipated that or started to experience that and just bought a whole lot of pre-fabricated stuff. Yeah. A whole lot of timber stored it in a shed because they had the capacity to do that so that if there was an issue, they had some backups. Yeah. But not everyone was in that situation. A lot of builders order what they need per job as they go. Um, and yeah, it's left them in some really tricky situations. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yep. Mm.
Speaker 1:It's,
Speaker 3:It's something to be aware of. It's just part of the current economic climate for the building and construction industry. Um, another thing, another reason that, um, might be causing delays and price increase claims is there's a lot of insurance repair work going on across the country at the moment. Um, so insurance companies are processing and approving claims for flood damage. There's still a tale from Bush fire bushfires a few years ago. Yeah. There's been quite a few natural disasters which have given rise to an increase in insurance claims. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So the insurance repair work that's going on generally, um, means that there are resources being diverted for that effort. So there's, there's shortages in qualified builders, trades, people materials as well. Yes. There's that real big demand at the moment for those resources to undertake insurance repair work. And that's another reason why builders are saying it's gonna take longer and it's gonna cost more.
Speaker 1:Yes. And that combined with the grants,
Speaker 3:Government grants,
Speaker 1:The government grants, grants, why am I saying grants? Like some posh person grants<laugh> that came out and lots of people understandably wanted to jump on that, take advantage of that build. Um, you're, you're really right. When those two things are happening in parallel it, it does put an extra strain on the
Speaker 3:Industry. Put strain. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Another reason I think too, and I'm hearing this from a lot of builder clients, is there's just a massive lack of tradespeople mm-hmm.<affirmative> and I'm not certain whether that's because there's so much demand that they're getting spread very thin. Whether it's a generation, um, which this make me sound really old, but that people are just, there's just a mass exodus in a lot of sectors. I mean, it's happening in law. A lot of young lawyers are just dropping off, not dying, dropping out of the industry,<laugh>, um, and doing something else. I I think that's possibly one of the reasons with trades as well. Yeah. Um, and also they can be, because of the demand can ask for increased prices, which puts pressure on builders, which means they're going to jobs that are able to pay the highest prices and that puts builders who aren't in that bargaining position, um, in quite a tricky spot. So I think labor is a big reason and issue as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Very much so. So it's just, it's just tough and we don't raise these issues, you know, as justification or an excuse for builders issuing price increase claims. I hope for those listening to this, if there is no other message that you receive from this episode, if the only thing you take away is it really depends on your contract and get some advice, then we've I would say done our job. Yes. Depends on what's written in your contract. So these things, these circumstances, these events can explain why builders are under pressure and issuing claims. Price increase claims, while it might be, you know, while you might be able to explain it, doesn't mean it's
Speaker 1:Legal. That's right.
Speaker 3:That they're two different questions. Yes.
Speaker 1:And I think as far as, um, these sorts of reasons and delays go to, um, extension of time claims, which we've talked about before, but your build taking a little bit longer. I think there's a balance, there's a balance between reasonably assessing those delays
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:But not being taken advantage of.
Speaker 3:Yes,
Speaker 1:Yes. Things happen. But should your build take two years to get from start to frame stage and possibly take another two years to be finished? No. Yeah, of course not. So there's a, there's a balance and again, comes back to your particular contract, your particular job, what's going on for your individual matter. But sometimes there does need to be a little bit of give and take I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 1:Mm.
Speaker 3:And builders need to do the right thing and actually follow the proper processes to follow the procedures under the contract.
Speaker 1:Communicate,
Speaker 3:Communicate. Communication is such a big thing. Like
Speaker 1:It's key isn't it?
Speaker 3:I think if I was given a claim for an extra 80 grand, my heart might stop like Yeah, where am I gonna get that money from? Well,
Speaker 1:Your secret money tree,
Speaker 3:My money tree, my backyard that I've told nobody about.<laugh> never will. But I get, I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I would,
Speaker 3:I would be really stressed. Yes. So communication builders, please communicate with your clients. If there are, if there are issues bubbling away, if there are worries, talk, talk to your clients. Cuz the clients get really angry really quickly and get on the phone to us really
Speaker 1:Fast. Yeah. But also homeowners don't just either accept it blindly or reject it and get into a huge big fight. Be frustrated, have that moment a hundred percent, but then be calm and logical about it. Pick up the phone, talk to someone. There will be more likely than not a path through it one way or another. Yeah.
Speaker 3:There, there is always options.
Speaker 1:You just gotta talk it through with someone. And I mean, that's one of the things that we do.
Speaker 3:Us dispassionate, harsh
Speaker 1:Direct. That's
Speaker 3:Right. No nonsense. Lawyers tell you how it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um, but we're not gonna sugarcoat things for people. Oh.
Speaker 3:And I don't think that's what people want either. I think they just want to need, they need to know what their position is and what to do next.
Speaker 1:They want solutions.
Speaker 3:Solutions,
Speaker 1:Not problems,
Speaker 3:Solutions and action.
Speaker 1:That's right. And that's what we try to do. That's
Speaker 3:What we offer. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool. Cool.
Speaker 3:Is
Speaker 1:That, I think that's all.
Speaker 3:I think that's all
Speaker 1:That was quite heavy, but I isn it heavy, unnecessary chat cuz it's affecting a lot of people.
Speaker 3:It's affecting a lot of people and it's, yeah. It's affecting a lot of people. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:<affirmative>. Okay. Well, as as usual, everyone's situation is different. If you have some questions, if you're not sure about something, our details are always in the show notes and, um, you can find us online. Um, otherwise I think that's all we need to cover today.
Speaker 3:I think so.
Speaker 1:We've got one more session. One more episode. One more episode before the end of the year.
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness. I still think it's 2019. I feel like I'm stuck in some kind of, is it almost 2023?
Speaker 1:It's almost 2023.
Speaker 3:I am not ready.
Speaker 1:Well maybe we'll be ready when we do that podcast,<laugh>. We'll see how we feel. We'll see how we go. Yeah. So awesome. All right. Thanks Kel. Thanks
Speaker 3:Marty.
Speaker 1:Hope you're feeling better.
Speaker 3:Oh, I will. Lots of tea.
Speaker 1:Lots of tea. And
Speaker 3:Rest. Tea and rest.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks. Talk soon. Bye.